The Truth on Tithing
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.... Pulpit of the Last Days offers a systematic, open discipleship forum with a very intentional focus on Jesus. But between these basic sub- jects, or as occasion allows, we invite you to investigate our break-out modules, which can be accessed through links in the right-hand column.
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.... This module investigates everyone’s favorite subject: tithing. Did Jesus command us to tithe? Is tithing under the law? Or should we give as we feel God leading us? Are Christian leaders ‘peddling’ the word of God when they receive a tithe, or do they have the ‘right’ to receive it?
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.... The answers to these questions and more are found in Jesus Himself, who is the living embodiment of the truth.
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.... To access The Truth on Tithing Module, please click here.
.... To access The Truth on Tithing Module, please click here.
posted by loren at 12:38 AM
11 Comments:
One thing I like about our Pastor is that he doesn't harp on tithing yet the tithe does well in our church and our understanding of it. I sent my Pastor your blog site. He preached an excellent message on the messianic fulfillment in Christ this morning. he spoke much out of the book of Job.
I think your blog is the best one on the web. I cannot understand why this blog is not frequented as others. I fear the old Adamic nature stands in strong resistence to what you preach here. I pray men wake up to this. Yeshua should be the focus above all things and not intelligent ascendance. For me it truly reveals where men's hearts are.
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Bhedr, at 8/28/2005 2:13 PM
Hi Brian,
I think there is sometimes a strange paradox in tithing. Jesus said to let our giving be done in secret, and our Father who sees in secret will reward us openly. But if we give to be seen by men, that is all the reward we should expect:
"The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law."
(Deut 29:29)
In the churches I've been to that have a special time for taking up offerings, they usually have an 'offeratory' (a brief lesson on giving,) and then the plate is passed or some other public venue is used for taking up the collection. But so often, these same churches seem to struggle to make ends meet.
On the other hand, I've been to churches that simply have an offering box in a discrete location, maybe at the back of the building somewhere. They never even make an announcement about offerings. At most, they may have an occasional reminder in the bulletin to tell everyone where the box is located.
These churches NEVER seem to have a problem making ends meet.
As an example, think about the chest that Jehoiada placed in the temple, with a hole bored in the lid (2 Kings 12:9). The Bible says they only opened it when it was full (10). This means they didn't have to open it after each service in order to scrimp together and make the payroll, or any such thing; they had plenty on hand in the bank. They had enough and to spare.
This is what happens when churches allow the giving to be done between the people and the Lord, in secret. No doubt He honors them in return, which is the source of the abundance they've shown.
And thanks for your remarks about the blog, to God be the glory! I know that as long as the blog is about Jesus, the Holy Spirit will keep working through it, because that's His ministry as well. And it's being built for posterity. It may catch on over time.
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loren, at 8/28/2005 4:11 PM
Hi Loren
Malachi 3:8-10
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
I believe that God challenges us in faith, not like the name it and claim it believers.
I like this post alot
Thank You
By
forgiven, at 11/27/2005 5:20 PM
Tithe money represents thirty pieces of silver. If you put together these two verses this is the question that you get. Deut. 14:25 and Zech. 11:12. The first says that you can exchange the (holy) tithe for money. The second says that 'They weigh for salary thirty pieces of silver.' I have spent the last twelve years searching for confirmation to the truth of this assertion. I have several scriptural ways to prove this to be the case. The fall of the stars from heaven in Revelation 12 parallels the going out of Judas at the last supper. The collecting of tithes is the rebellion.
Steve
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Stephen, at 11/27/2005 5:42 PM
Hi Stephen,
No offense intended, but the last time I heard a tithing doctrine that strange, the author turned out to be severely demonized (true). You did indicate that you had first heard this teaching from another source, so I am speaking of them, not you.
I would beware of that source if I were you, and not listen to them any more. Novel doctrines that contradict clear revelations speak of a teacher with an agenda to be a 'somebody', and they come up with these doctrines to 'distinguish themselves' from the crowd (1 Cor 11:19 KJV).
The thirty pieces of silver given to Judas had nothing to do with tithing. The Hebrew word 'tithe' literally means 'one-tenth', but the amount received by Judas was a whole wage for his act (Acts 1:18). In other words, the 30 pieces of silver were not received in the form of a 'tithe'.
Furthermore, because it was the price of blood, none of it, not even the tithe of it, could be received into the temple treasury afterward (Matt 27:6). The fact that the high priests understood this to be an unlawful association with tithe money shows that tithes were not the source of the 30 of pieces silver, either. They must have come from a private source.
In itself, this demonstares a clear separation from any 'tithe' connection. The two just never meet.
Zechariah 11 is a very interesting prophecy, and adds an interesting dimension to our understanding of the new covenant:
"And I took my staff, Beauty, and cut it in two, that I might break the covenant which I had made with all the peoples. So it was broken on that day. Thus the poor of the flock, who were watching me, knew that it was the word of the LORD. Then I said to them, "If it is agreeable to you, give me my wages; and if not, refrain." So they weighed out for my wages thirty pieces of silver."
(Zech 11:10-12)
God, at this point, is breaking the Old Covenant, but Israel has to agree to this. They agree by weighing out thirty pieces of silver.
If you follow the action in the gospels, Judas walks out to betray Jesus to fuilfill the intention he had agreed to (John 13:30). When this happens, the Old Testament Covenant is broken. And look at the next thing that happens:
"Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
(Matt 26:27-28)
Now that the Old Covenant is ended, Jesus immediately initiates the New.
FYI, money is simply a medium of exchange. Tithing began with with the tenth of produce, flocks, etc., being dedicated to the Lord, but if the person lived far away they were allowed to covert it into money and bring the money instead.
Also, within the typology of Revelation, stars represent angels (Rev 1:20). The fallen stars represent the fallen angels, who joined in Lucifer's rebellion.
Hope this helps. Again Stephen, beware of that source. I have a lot of experience with such teachers. You have come across a dangerous person.
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loren, at 11/27/2005 10:14 PM
Hi Forgiven,
Thanks for visiting my blog and for your kind comments. I've enjoyed the points you've made on Rose's blog. Hope we can talk some more in the future.
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loren, at 11/27/2005 11:25 PM
Loren,
Would appreciate your comment on the priesthood of Christ. From what I gather from reading Hebrews, Jesus' offering of his blood is the basis of his priesthood. Melchisedek received a one time gift, Jesus offered a one time gift. That gift being his sinless life on the cross. To receive money called a tithe is to make Jesus a receiver of money gifts. Are these offered alongside his blood? This is where you would plug in this verse. "They weighed for my salary thirty pieces of silver." Before that, he gives a choice saying, "If you think good give salary, if not forbear (leave it alone)". Knowing the danger of making money equal to the eternal offering of Christ's blood, I would suggest to any teacher to 'leave it alone'.
The scriptures say that the 'workman is worthy of his hire'. Who is the workman, the one doing the work or Christ? The scriptures also say that you are to not 'muzzle the ox that treads the corn'. Who is the ox, Jesus or the one preaching and teaching? The reason that church leaders gravitated to tithing is because they found they could get more money that way. This is also the sin of Judas who had money but found he could get more by exchanging the Lord for money. Have you found what the prophets say about 'strong drink'. This is what you are to purchase with 'tithe money' (Deut.14)
Read Isaiah 56:10-12.
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Stephen, at 11/30/2005 12:07 AM
Hi Stephen,
I'm working on something with a deadline right now, but I'll try to get back to you on this by the weekend.
Thought I should mention, I am a licensed minister but I have never taken any sort of wage for it.
I'll get back to you soon.
By
loren, at 11/30/2005 7:14 PM
Here is another comparison to consider.
Make two collumns. On one side list in order: Fruit of land, flesh of roe and hart, tithe, storehouse, prove, blessing.
In the other collumn list: Manna, flesh of quail, tenth of eqhah, pot, tempt, water from rock.
You should have six items in each collumn. The verses to be found for all of these elements are in Malachi 3, Exodus 16 and 17, Deuteronomy 12. There are two observations I would like to make with respect to tithing. One, is it okay to replace the manna with money as well as to replace the fruit of the land with money. That would mean replacing the bread of heaven with money.
Two, proving God for water (windows of heaven) is the same as tempting God for water. Proving God is a sin.
Stephen
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Stephen, at 12/04/2005 2:05 PM
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for your patience in waiting for my reply, I was trying to finish another project. I’m actually still not done with it, but I didn’t want you to have to wait any longer.
I’ve never heard the specific arguments you’ve presented about tithing (I’m assuming they’re from the teacher you mentioned), but even so their genre does not surprise me. I’ve actually seen many such teachings, not just on tithing but on other subjects too, and they tell a tale of their own.
In the main tithing module, I began with a story about a new church that I was helping to start, and I mentioned the presence of a ‘martyr section’ that was against receiving tithes. “If you accept tithes your god is your belly!” But as so often becomes the case, these ‘martyrs’ turned out to be false prophets, and they were trying to draw the other zealous Christians into corruption with them.
You see Stephen, there is more than one type of unrighteous wage. False prophets are chiefly motivated by gold, glory and girls, but in the beginning they know they can’t pursue all three at once. Since becoming a ‘somebody’ (glory) helps them pursue the other two, this usually becomes their prime objective.
In order to become a ‘somebody’, they will actively compete with other Christians leaders, tearing them down with malicious words (3 John 10). Before long the average Christian, in hearing all this, will reach a mistaken conclusion: “If everyone else is wrong, then he must be the one who is right!” That is not necessarily true, but it is exactly the sort of conclusion the false teacher hopes to cultivate. When every other Christian leader is despised, he believes he will bask in the contrast.
But that is usually not enough for them! Their competitive attitude usually borders on destroying ‘the enemy’. So here is a real tell-tale sign about them – it makes a false teacher stand out like a sore thumb every time:
In competing with other Christian leaders, they will look at the teachings for which they've been admired, and they will try to turn the tables on them. This is something they are obsessed with, which they absolutely love to do. They’ll look for a way to pluck the teaching apart; and before they’re done they’ll put such a spin on it that it will shock you, and leave you with the impression: “OMG! The very thing I thought was good was actually just one inch away from sending me to hell!!!”
Stephen, those are the kinds of doctrines your teacher has passed along to you. But his spin serves a further purpose. Afterward, he seems to stand alone as the only one with a deep enough understanding to pick out ‘the truth’ on such things. His handle on ‘truth’ starts to look exclusive. Through this, he becomes a unique source of ‘truth’ and starts to gather a devoted following. He often cultivates a mentality that he and his followers are like David and his band of mighty men on the run from ‘Saul’ (the traditional church); they are the ‘persecuted remnant’.
And by the way, he will also sow a great deal of mistrust within the group itself, so they won’t trust each other – they’ll only trust him. And if anyone in the group ever questions him, you’ll see him become extremely vindictive and tear them down as well. If they’re married, his first hope would be in turning their spouse against them.
If you’ve read my other module on The Lost Ministry of Amphipolis, you’ll see that tithes have been a sore spot for Christian leaders historically. So it is easiest for an aspiring false teacher to choose this area to begin his battles, and to accuse other leaders, and so distinguish himself from them. But if it suits his purpose better he can also go the other way:
For example, let’s look at a fellow named Diotrephes in 3 John. He is actually the archetype for all that I’ve described here, and he was in the process of ascending to the leadership position in that church. He was trouncing ‘the competition’(and even speaking slanderously against the Apostle John.) But then there came a group who ministered to the Gentiles without collecting tithes – just as Paul had been compelled to do – and they received admiration from the church for this. The other Christians in the church received them, and to Diotrephes these ministers became the new ‘competition’.
Somehow, in response, he found a way of portraying their generosity as a sin, and he threw them out of the church – along with those church members who had reached out to them. So the very thing they thought was good . . . turned out to be enough to throw them into hell! False teachers like him are very vindictive in such ways, in how they handle people they disagree with.
Actually Stephen, I’ve picked up enough broken lives in their wake to know what they’re like, and I believe that this is the same sort of influence that is handing these teachings to you. But now allow me to go into a few specifics:
Your teacher seems to be blurring the distinction between tithes and sacrifices, portraying them as one, to make a link between blood and money. Tithes are not sacrifices, they are an act of homage, like a tribute, to the Lord’s greatness. I’ve already addressed how the tithe and the price of blood never equated.
To answer your question on the Melchizedek priesthood, Jesus offering His blood is not the basis for His priesthood, if you mean that this is how He became a priest. Actually, Jesus was made a priest by an oath, and as a priest He offered His blood. It wouldn’t have availed anybody otherwise.
Who is the workman? In the sense that Jesus applied it (in receiving material goods from the people), the ministers are the workers (Matt 10:5,10). Who is the ox that treads out the corn? Again, Paul says that God actually spoke about the ministers (1 Cor 9:9,10). Your teacher has told you that the worker is Christ, and the ox is Christ, because he wants to show that men should not receive wages of any kind. But in so doing he contradicts himself. So let’s make an ad hominem argument to show that his exegesis is faulty:
If the worker is Christ and the ox is Christ, he admits that Jesus is worthy of receiving ‘hire’ for His ministry, which would make Him a receiver of monies – blood monies – the very thing he later decries (and in fact, when Jesus Himself was the minister, He often received such things). In saying these things, your teacher reaches some very novel interpretations that exactly contradict the clear intention of the Scriptures: “Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.” (1 Cor 9:14).
Actually, this brings us to another point. Tithes are symbolic of the whole provision that we have received from the Lord’s hand. If He deals generously with us with the 100%, and it all comes from His hand, why would we be sinning to dedicate the 10% back where it came from? Wouldn’t that make Him 10 times as guilty for providing it in the first place, as we were in dedicating it back to Him?
Your teacher believes that Christian leaders receive tithes because they get more money that way. In fairness, keep in mind that the tithe is dedicated to the Lord, not the Christian leaders; and whatever God does with it is His own affair. If He designates it for the leaders, who are we arguing with Him? Can He not do as He wishes with His own things? But here’s a prediction for you:
The person in question will eventually find some way of accumulating gold to himself as well. He may not call it ‘tithes’, but it will be something similar. Like the Children of God or the Branch Davidians, he may advocate a communal lifestyle in which everyone gives up all that they have. Unless he is independently wealthy, he needs to get money from somewhere and he will. Just keep your eyes open, and you’ll see it before long.
The more recent analogy, with the two columns, is another good example of the pattern I’ve shown, because it is very esoteric and subjective. Why, for example, is God Himself not on either list? What about offerings (and if not, why not?) What about blessing, nations and devourers? Etc. Why are some things on the list and others not?
About the manna. Manna was never tithed nor replaced for money. It was gathered exactly to measure each day (Ex 16:18). Nor is manna the true bread of heaven as Jesus plainly stated (John 6:31-32).
‘Proving’ God is rare, but when it is offered it is God’s idea and His invitation, as opposed to tempting Him which is the opposite. They contrast, they don’t equate.
But here’s the thing Stephen. Look what great lengths this teacher has gone to, with such ‘special knowledge’ and syllogisms, to teach the opposite of what the Bible teaches in very plain terms. Here’s one last prediction. When the wind blows a new way, he will go back and change some of his previous teachings, on this or on other subjects. Think about it honestly and you’ll probably see many examples of how he has done this already. False teachers are usually not doctrinally stable; their beliefs bend with their needs.
If this is beginning to make sense to you and you’re seeing the need to do something about it, here’s one last piece of advice. Leave quickly and quietly. If you’ve got family members in the same group, especially a spouse, just plain pick up and leave town with no notice, and explain it to her on the way out. Otherwise you’ll see the teacher try to split you up. And be prepared to follow up by discussing the gospel with each other, and seeking God in prayer about it (here’s a link with the information you’ll need.)
Hope this has helped. I will also be praying for you.
By
loren, at 12/04/2005 10:17 PM
Loren,
Thank you so much for your concern about the false teacher leading me astray. It was rather insightful your expose on the goal of false prophets and how they get followers from God's flock and cause harm to His people. May I not go that route myself, is my prayer. Thank you for your prayers on my behalf.
It started for me when I read Deut.14 on the exchange of the tithe for money. I just asked the question: 'could this be a shadow of the exchange of Christ by Judas for money?' It has been just me, Loren, that asked the question, and have been trying to find where in scripture that there are proofs of this proposition if any. The eternal priesthood of Christ is one place. Could you answer this question: Does Jesus receive tithes as did Melchisedek? Yes,no? Does Jesus receive tithes as part of his priesthood duties? Yes, no
You did get the 'prove' God research wrong. In Psalms 95:9 both words are used: tempt (nacah) and prove (bachan). In Malachi 3:10 and 3:15, the same Hebrew word is used, (bachan). I will give all three verses here for comparison.
"Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness. When your fathers tempted me, proved (bachan) me, and saw my work. Forty years long was I grieved..."
Psalms 95:8-10
"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove (bachan) me now...." Malachi 3:10
"And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt (bachan) God are even delivered." Malachi 3:15
My contention is that all three uses are negative. By comparing the manna to it's replacement, the fruit of the land, we find that just after they put a tenth part measurement into the pot (Exodus 16:36), they tempted God for water (Exodus 17:2). Is it a coincidence that the windows of heaven promise is rain (water)? This is not a condition to a promise but a challenge to Israel, if they would choose to sin in the same manner as they had in the wilderness. In other words is the text saying in essence "prove me now as you did in the wilderness." In Isaiah 55:1 we read that the water is free without money. Because of this mis-understanding of Malachi 3 we have thousands of ministers charging God's people for water rights when God says plainly that it is free.
"Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price." Isaiah 55:1
By
Stephen, at 12/07/2005 12:41 AM
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